Wednesday, July 19, 2017

40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Boyz vs bikes, a case study.

What happens when rules drastically changes how you field your models?  A great example is the new index and Boyz vs Warbikes.
 
Warbikes were, IMO, unequivocally the best unit in the 7th edition codex.  Especially when combined with Zhadsnark.
 
 
 
 
So what made the bikes so good?
-had slugga/choppa for 3 attacks each
-3 TL S5 shots per bike
-+1 to cover save when turbo-boosting.
-4+ armor save included
-Fast!  24" per turn move + more if Zhadsnark around.
-Just 18pts per model!
-the T and save made them far less susceptible to mob rule.
 
And where did boyz suffer in 8th?

-Slow
-Suffered greatly at the hands of mob rule
-not very resilient
-were not able to kill everything.
 
Then the index hit, turning the situation completely around. 
Bikes:
-increased 50% in points
-Lost a LOT of their speed, from 24" to 14+d6"
-No "exhaust cloud" at all, which has been a stable fluffy rule for decades!

Mainly, though, it was the dramatic increase in cost.  There wasn't even really anything in the edition change that made bikes so much worse..just the points increase.

What did boyz gain?
-Mob rule.  The best morale mitigation in the game outside of "fearless".  Who doesn't want a LD30 unit of models?
-Attack buffs, both number and to-hit.
-Being able to be jumped across the board.


What it comes down to is while the points didn't change for the boyz, the difference between the two became much greater.  Resulting in boyz just being a much more important staple than before.

Friday, July 7, 2017

Warhammer 40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Big Choppas vs Power Klaws (warning: Mathhammer!)

Time to consider big choppas. They have never been viable options, with just a slugga/choppa being statistically better.

So anyway, 8th edition has changed that. Both due to the weapon profile and the rules.

So viable, in fact, I went ahead and bought a box of nobs so I can make a big choppa nob for each of my 6 units of boys!

1 Goff, 2 Evil Sunz, 3 Blood Axe.

Let's examine the difference.

Big Choppa:  S+2 (so S7), AP-1, 2 damage    you'll notice this is essentially the same as a Deffgun
Power KLaw Sx2 (so S10), AP-3, D3 damage, -1 to hit.

Big Choppa is also 36% of the points.  If I take 3 units of boys, that's a savings of 48points! 

The 3 categories:

Strength:  When is S10 better than S7? Anything T5 or lower.  Then you're wounding on 2+  Also anything with T20 or higher - which does not exist.  But once you get to vehicles you're still at a 3+, and thus have no benefit over S7.

AP: -3 vs -1.  That means you have a much better chance of getting that damage through, but having any AP at all makes the Big Choppa usable. Taking a 3+ to a 4+ is pretty nice.

Damage: D3 vs 2.  Even if you do get the PK through, there is a 1/3 chance you'll only do 1 damage.

Let's do some mathhammer:

Vs a Space Marine (T4, 3+ save, 1W)
BC:  3A * (2/3 chance to hit) * (2/3 chance to wound) * (1/2 chance to not save) = .667 dead marine
Points/damage =13pts per dead marine

PK:  3A * (1/2 chance to hit) * (5/6 chance to wound) * (5/6 chance to not save) = 1.04 dead marine
Points/damage=24pts per dead marine

Vs an average vehicle (T7, 3+ save, multiple wounds)

BC:  3A * (2/3 chance to hit) * (1/2 chance to wound) * (1/2 chance to not save) * (2 damage) = 1 wound
Points/damage=9

PK:  3A * (1/2 chance to hit) * (2/3 chance to wound) * (5/6 chance to not save) * d3 wounds = 1.66 wounds
Points/damage=15

So as we can see here the big choppa is statistically more points efficient, and by that I mean you pay fewer points for equivalent damage.  That's not a bad deal at all.

Monday, July 3, 2017

First 8th edition tournament summary

So when I go to tournaments I usually don't do full reports because I'd rather just play and concentrate on the game then worry about filming. So I'll just give you a brief overview of what went down on Saturday at Glimpses of Wonder and Warfare.

Game 1 vs Tau: The Scouring


He had 2 stormsurges and 3 hammerheads..and not much else.  We rolled and the 4pt objective was on my side and I went first.  I jumped 30 shootas to the area on the right, killed a unit of Firewarriors for first blood and shooting and assault took down the first stormsurge by 7 wounds and a couple wounds on Longstrike.  Not too bad. He wiped out the shoota boys quite easily and put a couple wounds on the tanks.  Next turn I just poured the firepower and knocked down the stormsurge some more.  He then moved up a bit and used what he could to do damage to another unit of boys. That small unit then jumped and assaulted some pathfinders.  I jumped the last unit and killed stormsurge and assaulted the 2nd.  Near the end Zhadsnark moved up and tried to finish the last 4 wounds on the stormsurge but he made all his invul saves.  I held the 4pt, and he had 3 objectives for a 5-7 minor loss.  I didn't have much left on the board!




Game 2 vs Salamanders, No mercy.


Varied marine list.  Couple libbies, 4 melta in a drop pod (I surrounded the tanks), bike command squad and chaplain, a couple razorbacks, and lascannons, but the most deadly thing there was 4 Centurions with Heavy Bolters and Hurricane Bolters - OH MY!  They had to die.  First turn I jumped the shoota boys, killed one in shooting..and then failed the charge!  That unit didn't last long. Next turn I jumped another unit took out the apothecary and librarian.  It took a couple turns to finish off the centurions, and zhadsnark mowed through the command squad despite the storm shields (a turn of complete whiff with thunderhammers helped).  Again, not much left at the end.


With first blood and warlord I scored a 120-45 major victory.

Game 3 vs demons, secure and control.


He had a ton of seekers of slannesh, brimstones, 15 thousand sons terminators and Magnus. I ended up with first turn yet again!  I jumped the shootas over and tried for first blood on the brimstones to no effect.  I also took 2 wounds of magnus after some re-rolling 1's and a command point for another save.  I should have gone for the seekers. But the seekers spent half the game doing nothing but killing boys so that was quite nice. He then dropped all the terminator and flew magnus right in my face, wiping out most of a unit of boys in shooting but opted to charge mostly another unit so there wasn't much damage in combat.  I then jumped the remaining big unit out of combat to assault the smaller unit of termies, locking them up until they died in turn 5.  The other bigger unit stayed locked in for most of the game.  Zhadnark did a TON of damage to the termies all by himself.  Magnus was able to kill off most of my characters but I kept hounding him getting him down to 2 wounds at the end of the game.  It ended on turn 5 or I probably would have killed magnus and taken my objective from the 3 remaining termies.




Result in a 0-8 major loss.

Yep 1-2 that day, and with a bit of better play it probably would have been 1-1-1.  My biggest errors were not attacking magus with the deffrolla! Totally forgot to attack with my tanks at all while he was locking them in combat. GRRR!! Even the Kill tank is pretty bad ass in combat and can do mortal wounds on the charge!

Despite losing most of my army every game none of them felt like I never stood a change. They were all excellent games and could have gone my way with a bit better play and/or remembering my rules.

Sunday, July 2, 2017

40k 8th edition Ork commentary: Goodbye Loota-Wagon, we hardly knew ye...

Pretty much since the start of 8th I've been running lootas in a battlewagon (aka "loota-wagon) with the reading of the rules for the battlewagon that the passengers don't suffer the move and shoot penalty. I confirmed with Reece from Frontline gaming asking several times on Twitch.

However today the first 8th edition FAQ dropped and that does not work.  It's been "nerfed".  Yay!  Orks are VERY squishy and giving the lootas decent protection (since terrain is meaningless) really made a huge difference.  Repairing the wagon also helped with that.  It was very, very good.

So now the question is..what is the alternative? How can we keep the lootas alive to do their job?  Well really the only answer is a Void Shield Generator. Basically the same points as a battlewagon + deffrolla, it gives anything within 12" a 4++ from shots outside the 12".  This goes down as the building take damage though. The obvious difference is that it is static, and even moving by foot is a lot slower than in a battlewagon. 

Of course you can just keep the loota-wagon and if you have to move then just suck up the -1.  It wasn't an issue before with things like going to ground behind an aegis, so why is it a big deal now?  Because it was good, but not so good as to be OP. It gave Orks that long-range mobile firepower so many other armies take for granted.  It was new and different and effective.


Another alternative is to pump out more Kill Tanks.  It's actually fewer points than a battlewagon full of lootas. In fact I can almost take TWO for what I was paying for the loota-wagon!  And hell, you can still put lootas in them if you want lol! Did I forget to mention taking 3 gives you +3 command points?!?!



Anyway I think going forward the Kill Tank (and mabye the big trakk) will become the go-to tanks for the Ork player in competitive play.  It's just so darn cheap for what you get.

So that's where we are at. Less than a month into 8th and Orks have already been hit with the nerfbat.  Color me not surprised.

Saturday, July 1, 2017

First 8th edition tournament list!

Tomorrow I will be playing in my first 8th edition tournament.  I will be taking almost the same list I played in my last battle report, replacing the warboss with Zhadsnark.



Battalion Detachment
HQ: Zhadsnark
HQ: Big Mek on bike, KFF
HQ: Wierdboy, Da Jump

Troop: 30 Slugga boyz, Nob w/PK
Troop: 30 Slugga boyz, Nob w/PK
Troop: 30 Shoota boyz, 3x Rokkit, Nob w/PK

 Elite: Painboy on Bike

Spearhead Detachment
HQ: Mek, KFF
HQ: Mek, KFF

Heavy: Battlewagon, Deffrolla
Heavy: 5 lootas
Heavy: 5 lootas
Heavy: 9 lootas

Super Heavy Auxiliary Detachment
Kill Tank, Gigashoota, 2x Twin big shootas

1999pts, 7 command points

So that's it, we'll see how it goes.